Why do American Executives hate animation?

[Kevin Smith]

http://seanszeles.blogspot.com/2007/10/el-tigre.html

Why do executives hate American animation?

If you haven't heard, El Tigre was canceled. There are some people I've met on this website who worked on El Tigre, and I'm very sorry for them.

Name me one new animated show that is coming out in the next year (not including Chowder). Now name me one original English animated show that is being renewed.

I don't know what to do. I DON'T want to make childish shows. Why must I appeal to children? Because the industry tells me to?

Is it because the House of Mickey doomed American animation to be unfairly considered the realm of children?

I want to animate topics that appeal to me.

I want to go beyond what censorship allows me to show.

I want to push the envelope, to salute the future at the same time I exonerate the past, to create stories that ignite the imagination of those who follow me.

I don't see that currently.

Right now, animation is my dream. Whether I pursue it or not is currently up in the air, but if I do make this my life, I want to revolutionize what has come before and what will come since.

Who is the Miyazaki of American Animation? McCracken? Tartakovsky? Adams? McFarlene?

The only american animations marketed for adults are comedies. Where is the animated "CSI:? "The animated "Heroes"? There are no animated dramas, no animated suspense, no animated action.

Breaking into animation is one thing. Sure, don't break your back, but what are you doing to make American animation considered true art?

In the trailer for PAPRIKA, the New York Times states "Japanese animators are reaching for the moon, while their American counterparts remain stuck in the kiddie box." Doesn't that just anger you?!?

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm just ignorant. But don't you want to see something more?

Animation as art?

A conversation:
RadioFreeMetalG: Thank god. I just posted a rant on Frederator
capnkep720: oh yeah?
RadioFreeMetalG: I don't know if I should have
capnkep720: where?
RadioFreeMetalG: On my profile
RadioFreeMetalG: http://raw.channelfrederator.com/profiles/blog/show?id=890404%3ABlo...
capnkep720: I don't see it.
RadioFreeMetalG: I just posted it up 5 seconds ago, so maybe nto
RadioFreeMetalG: So I'm guessing it must be approved by a moderator
capnkep720: well, what was it about?
RadioFreeMetalG: Here's the full script:
capnkep720: ok
RadioFreeMetalG: I was originally going to make this a forum post, but I decided against it.

http://seanszeles.blogspot.com/2007/10/el-tigre.html

Why do executives hate American animation?

If you haven't heard, El Tigre was canceled. There are some people I've met on this website who worked on El Tigre, and I'm very sorry for them.

Name me one new animated show that is coming out in the next year (not including Chowder). Now name me one original English animated show that is being renewed.

I don't know what to do. I DON'T want to make childish shows. Why must I appeal to children? Because the industry tells me to?

Is it because the House of Mickey doomed American animation to be unfairly considered the realm of children?

I want to animate topics that appeal to me.

I want to go beyond what censorship allows me to show.

I want to push the envelope, to salute the future at the same time I exonerate the past, to create stories that ignite the imagination of those who follow me.

I don't see that currently.

Right now, animation is my dream. Whether I pursue it or not is currently up in the air, but if I do make this my life, I want to revolutionize what has come before and what will come since.

Who is the Miyazaki of American Animation? McCracken? Tartakovsky? Adams? McFarlene?

The only american animations marketed for adults are comedies. Where is the animated "CSI:? "The animated "Heroes"? There are no animated dramas, no animated suspense, no animated action.

Breaking into animation is one thing. Sure, don't break your back, but what are you doing to make American animation considered true art?

In the trailer for PAPRIKA, the New York Times states "Japanese animators are reaching for the moon, while their American counterparts remain stuck in the kiddie box." Doesn't that just anger you?!?

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm just ignorant. But don't you want to see something more?

Animation as art?

capnkep720: I totally agree with you.
capnkep720: I've never thought about it that way
RadioFreeMetalG: I'm worried some will hate me
capnkep720: if they do, ...f### 'em
RadioFreeMetalG: thanks
capnkep720: why should only the japanese make animation intense adult dramas?
capnkep720: why can't Americans make something like "blue horizon"?
RadioFreeMetalG: Samba will not cater to children
capnkep720: I feel the same with composing music for animation and video games
capnkep720: why is it that only japanese are writing music like this? what's wrong with me being able to do it?
RadioFreeMetalG: What's wrong with holding it to higher standard?
capnkep720: why shouldn't I be able to write something epic for an animation instead of this constant "mickey mouse" sounding crap that's overdone.
capnkep720: exactly.
RadioFreeMetalG: I want to feel the same feeling I felt when watching old school anime at 1 am on SCIFI channel
capnkep720: yeah
capnkep720: Ithink that american art is held back in general
capnkep720: music, theatre, animation
capnkep720: they're cutting all the programs in schools
capnkep720: and when they do have them, they're forced to focus themselves inside a box.
RadioFreeMetalG: Art for the sake of art
capnkep720: yeah, exactly.
capnkep720: I feel like they focus soo much on 3d animation now, and only for movies, that they rarely do anything for anime in america
RadioFreeMetalG: Well, not anime
capnkep720: well, animation
RadioFreeMetalG: Has there been anything animated that appeals beyound the 13- range, besides comedies?
capnkep720: none that I can think of.
capnkep720: unless you consider Boondocks one
RadioFreeMetalG: I love the Simpsons, South Park, and Futurama
capnkep720: but that's only a one way track
capnkep720: and it's only there to make one statment.
capnkep720: which usually incorporates comedy in it.
RadioFreeMetalG: The Boondocks is amazing
capnkep720: albeit a little harsher and more racial.
RadioFreeMetalG: But who else is there in competition?
capnkep720: none.
RadioFreeMetalG: I watch Deviantartist LeSean, who worked storyboards and character design for the Boondocks
capnkep720: that's really cool.
RadioFreeMetalG: And he even states in his post that the Boondocks is pushing the envelope
capnkep720: yeah
capnkep720: this part of our world is continually being poisoned by mediocrity and redundancy
RadioFreeMetalG: Unfortuately, I will never agree to contrbute to anything below my ideals...so, unfortunately still, I will not go far
capnkep720: well, we can't pave our own way by walking in another's footprints.
RadioFreeMetalG: But I fear that I will never break into animation
capnkep720: you just have to develop a thick skin and just go after what you want.
RadioFreeMetalG: In the end, it's the almighty dollar, both in Japan and America
capnkep720: yeah
RadioFreeMetalG: Japan wants Americans to stop downloading their animation without paying
capnkep720: who knows, you might have the next greatest animated series
RadioFreeMetalG: I wish
RadioFreeMetalG: I think
RadioFreeMetalG: I hope
capnkep720: If you know what you want, the rest will come to you.

[Ken Dickerman]

They have the news on DVD now?!? :)

[Elliot Cowan]

Yes.
Peter Jackson directs it.

[Keith Handy]

Yeah, please don't try to tell me there isn't at least a hint of dystopian mass mind-conditioning going on in television news. If you have six billion people on a planet, statistically, a few of them are going to be raped, a few houses are going to burn down, and a few people are going to shoot each other or try to blow a few things up (I know that sounds cold). But painting that small statistical abnormality as the official portrait of "the world today" is kind of manipulative and exploitative.

I'd take a job working for a commercial network if it was offered to me, just for the experience, but I think I've dug myself too deeply into the starving artist lifestyle to be taken seriously... by, uh, just about anyone...

[John Fountain]

Well, but stories like murder and terrorism and rape and horror are featured on the news because they're NEWS.
It's not mind-control... it's just news. Something is news BECAUSE it is abmnormal.

You can't really do news reports about stuff everyone sees every day on their own.

Having said that, I do believe that folks should demand a little more in the way of objective reporting from the news media.

[Keith Handy]

Since terrorism is happening on a regular basis, it's more statistical than "new".

I do believe the general message from television, when you add it all up, is "you are powerless". Go and spend money on fashionable things while we tell you what's fashionable. Oh and by the way, be scared, because there are sickos out there that popped into existence out of thin air. Come on, does anyone on network TV ever talk about the real root psychological causes of sociopathic behavior? No, they're just boogeymen with no backstory. Or if they do touch on the root causes, it's, guess what, something in the entertainment industry that gave them the idea to go on a killing spree -- another, "oh noes, you have this in your household, be scared".

I didn't say mind control, as that would imply that one person sitting at the top of it all has one specific end result in mind; but conditioning, yes, all things we expose ourselves to are conditioning us in some way, and the overall momentum of mainstream media's general vibe or spirit is one I have been uncomfortable with for quite some time. And believe me, I've had my serious couch potato days; maybe that's part of it, my own addictive and suggestive tendencies that I'm trying to avoid leaving open.

By the way, just so you know, I'm enjoying this debate and have no desire for anything I say here to come across like I'm being bitchy or anything. :)

[Vincent Veidt]

I'm going to leave the forum before I shout out my sixteen page hobgoblin opinion...

[John Fountain]

The "starving artist" bohemian lifestyle is a tricky existence. I admire those that can pull it off... I'm too bloated and spoiled.

On the one hand, you have total creative freedom, but on the other hand you often have to work crappy non-creative jobs to support yourself.

Yet on still the OTHER hand, if you're good at getting your work out there and it happens to catch the public's interest, you stand to become "commercially successful" without "selling out".

Yet on still the OTHER hand, you run the risk of that never happening and having to live a hand-to-mouth existence.

It's a tricky balancing act... I couldn't pull it off.

I love my XBOX360 far too much to give up life in the animation pipeline...

[Keith Handy]

Yeah, it's a funny thing about choosing that lifestyle -- when you first do it, you're being "irresponsible". But then once you're in far enough that there's no turning back, it comes down to being responsible enough to maintain it somehow.

Also, it requires the maturity to respect people who didn't choose that path, which in my late 30s, I'm just starting to get a handle on. :)

And hey, I like my G5. It just took more time to pay for it.

[John Fountain]

Understood... same here.

I'm not easily offended, so I generally assume that anything said is in the spirit of healthy discussion.

Having said that...

You raise an interesting point when it comes to the way television "pursues" its viewers... there are, essentially, two types of shows (in my opinion) and two types of advertisements (in my opinion).

With (narrative) TV shows you have the "I CAN RELATE TO THAT!" and "BOY I WISH THAT WAS MY LIFE" categories - at least on American TV shows... UK shows also include "WHAT AN AWFUL PERSON" shows... but lets stick to the U.S.

A show like 'All in the Family' was intended to be an ICRTT show reflecting the changes in the generation gap. A show like 'Heroes' is a type of BIWTWML 'fantasy fulfillment' for people who want to lose themselves in pure fiction. Then, of course, there are shows that PRETEND to be ICRTT but in truth they are BIWTWML - 'Friends' is a perfect example of that.

Similarly, there are two basic approaches advertisers take in soliciting dollars... POSITIVE and NEGATIVE reinforcement.

PR ads say things like "You work hard for your money - don't you deserve a luxury SUV?"

NR ads play on your fears and insecurities and say things like "You never know when tragedy will strike - if you don't have Allstate Insurance, you may be caught in the eye of a storm..."

As with anything else, the more AWARE someone is, the more they can view all of this stuff with a little more objectivity.

I like to think that when I watch HEROES that, yes, I am losing myself in fantasy, but I waste no time sitting around wishing I had superpowers. When I used to watch FRIENDS, I could laugh at the jokes, but at the end of the day I knew that my REAL friends were about a million times more interesting and funny than these TV actors.

Anyway... I could go on and on about this stuff...

[Sharvonique]

Don't buy into the "starving artist" mentality. It's absolutely possible to pursue your creative aspirations and still make a living. I aso don't think you're selling out if you're working in the field that you love, whether you're working independently or commercially.

[Keith Handy]

I don't think working in the field you love is selling out either. I envy people that manage to get into their field.

[Vincent Veidt]

I just wrote an essay on this very topic... there's a chance it will be published, so I'll keep you posted.