Is it just me or does Flash really suck?

[fluffy]

So I've only recently started animating (which I've wanted to do for years), and of course being a child of the computer age I've been using Flash for all of it. Is Flash really the easiest way to animate on a computer? I guess I've been spoiled by how good the state of video and audio editing apps are.

First of all, Flash's model is so wacky. You have a master timeline with no real way of doing hierarchical "blocks" (except scenes, but if you do that you can't have elements which span multiple scenes - plus, how can you rearrange scenes afterwards? It seems that you have to create them in order). Okay, there's also movie clips, but when you use those, you can't actually see them in action until you've exported the movie, and good luck trying to synchronize them to everything else. And then its layers are all like "hey let's separate everything into separate layers since that's the only way to keep shapes separate, except hey let's make it so that editing operations sometimes affect everything the cursor touches! Oh you didn't want to change the background layer? TOO BAD, YOU FORGOT TO LOCK IT."

Next, it's buggy as hell. Motion tweens don't seem to work consistently - SOMETIMES you can move and rotate, SOMETIMES you can just move, sometimes if you move and then later add a rotation without making any other modification the move gets completely jacked-up. And then when you try exporting the movie to Quicktime so you can, say, bring it into Final Cut to composite it with another video, good luck actually getting a decent result - since it tries doing everything in realtime and just treats Quicktime as some sort of live video tape, all sorts of things can mess up (if you buffer to memory you get weird artifacts where parts of the image don't get updated, if you buffer to disk then the framerate sucks). I'd just composite it in Flash except I'm working at 720p and so that leads to all sorts of other problems (related to the framerate/speed issues).

Then there's some things where it just doesn't even TRY. Shape tweens make absolutely no sense. Change even one vertex location on either end and suddenly the whole tween just does this really weird thing where it doesn't even try to interpolate the shapes in any reasonable way. Even the fill and the outline get interpolated completely differently. My day job is as a graphics programmer so I know that doing good automatic shape tweening is difficult, but this isn't even mediocre shape tweening, this is crap.

If it makes a difference, this is on CS3. I also have MX (which I bought years ago when I didn't have the patience to learn this), which might work better. Is it worth downgrading? If I do, will my CS3-authored animations at least load in MX? (I'm not using anything fancy, or at least nothing that would be considered fancy in the video editing world, though I guess that doesn't necessarily map well.) I see CS3 only gives the option to save in CS3 and 8... is there any way to convert it to MX, aside from also getting version 8 and using that to 'save as' in MX format?

I think in the future I'll just draw everything in Photoshop and composite/move it in Final Cut, which actually has a semblance of a decent model (unfortunately its workflow and motion etc. is intended for video and motion graphics, not for animation, but that should still be a hell of a lot easier to deal with than Flash).

[Stephen M. Levinson]

This is one of the most ridiculous post I've ever seen. You're just ignorant and don't know how to use the program. It is "just you."

Here's what I suggest. Learn the program first before complaining, and if you have questions ask them as questions, not rant about how bad flash apparently is. You clearly know nothing about the program. Everything you're complaining about is basic flash stuff. Buy tutorials, or ask questions about how to do certain things. Complaining like you have is just pointless unless you ask questions of how to do certain things . This post makes you look very foolish.

[jimmortensen]

Stephen, I think you should read the rest of the thread.

[fluffy]

Basically, I was asking for help in a satirical fashion, and I got my questions answered. Also, I had a hard time finding decent tutorials which weren't about making badly-lipsynced AMVs and the like. But hey, thanks for assuming I was posting a "final word" when I was just frustrated about a few things I was having a hard time with, when I just want to do this crap for fun and the tools I use for my other hobbies have much more intuitive interfaces.

[jimmortensen]

You're a fluff of class, Fluffy!

[Stephen M. Levinson]

I'm not going to go back and forth with you about what you said. You got some of your questions answered, and that's all that really matters. Flash is an incredible program, you just need to know how to use it. It doesn't have too terrible of a learning curve, and there are tons of people on this site, as well as on keyframer.com/forum and bbs.coldhardflash.com to help you....You hit at soft spot with the name of this post, I'm extremely passionate for this type of work.

[omanaman]

Flash was never intended for animation... that might be why the program has a sharp learning curve. Being both an animator and interactive designer, I think Flash is very complete when it comes to making websites... but its very limited in its animation capabilities. I recommend learning the basic animation principles in Flash, but then moving on to After Effects, or Toon Boom. Flash is very limited in terms of being able to innovate.

[fluffy]

Yeah, I've heard that a lot of people use After Effects for animation. Isn't it basically just video compositing though? What does it offer in that regard that Final Cut Pro does not? (I ask because I already have Final Cut Pro and am pretty familiar with its user interface, and have been using it in conjunction with Flash for this first real animation that I'm working on. This animation is pretty basic, though, and for my next one I will almost certainly just draw everything in Photoshop and compose it in Final Cut.)

[Vincent Veidt]

Wow, omanaman, you're starting to sound like me.

[Vincent Veidt]

Wow, Stephen, I never thought I would see you lose your cool. Anyway, although this is a dead thread, here's what I have to say. There's a difference between a Flash animator and an animator who uses Flash. Learn the basics before expecting a computer to do all the work. That said, any program that supports keyframe editing, painting, and video export can be used for animation, but in varying degrees. At first, there's child's play, where I consider most of the Flash work on the net to be; fortunately, it's buried by the good stuff. Then there's average, it means you know the software, but you could use a bit more passion and dedication to the basics of drawn animation. Then comes mastery, where you have already mastered drawn animation and have seamlessly translated this knowledge and experience to the digital domain (didn't that used to be a name for the internet?). Very few people achieve this mastery status. Anyway, Flash may not be the best program for computer animation, but in that vein, oils may not be the best paint, a canvas may not be the best surface, and color may be overrated. The point is, you must experience a variety of options and pick your favored tool without limitation of convention. Flash, to me, really, really sucks because I'm happier with Toon Boom Digital Pro, Photoshop, Painter, Final Cut Pro, Soundtrack Pro, After Effects, Motion, and DVD Studio Pro. You don't have to be, but at very least, you should explore your options.

Flash is not the end all, be all computer animation program. Don't force it down peoples' throats.
Flash won't magically disappear if one person dislikes it.
Unless you're a compensated spokesperson, you shouldn't get offended when someone says they dislike a product. You should also refrain from attacking potential converts as that will drive them away, so use some tact a try to subtly convince the person in question to reconsider.

Good night.

[Vincent Veidt]

Wow, I AM page 3. Anyway, after posting the above message, I realized that this is all very similar to the expansive conversation entitled "Cartoon Animations ?" that was active a short time prior. Sorry.

[Stephen M. Levinson]

Hey Denny,

Only when someone hits too close to home.

[Kyoshi]

Flash is a web program... that simple.